athena pheromone review

The manufacturer of this product says that it is not an aphrodisiac. About Athena She got her Ph.D. in biology in 1986 and helped prove the existence of human pheromones. Although the company has been in business since 1985 and Doctor Cutler has great credentials, I found numerous disadvantages with this company and product. Versatile – XiSt Pheromone Oil for Men can be used as a standalone product, or if you can pair it with other pheromones for more powerful effects. Developed by Dr. Winnifred B. Cutler around 1995, Athena pheromones have remained in production since this time, and have only become a mildly popular pheromone product for men to … Get Details Here! April 5, 2016 May 30, 2018. For some reason, the idea of the readership of the NYRB sending away for love potions through the mail is hilarious, but that is just me. Chikara Pheromone. It can be added to lotions, colognes or hair gels. Mike: Let me correct a few errors, please. Athena Pheromone 10X™ is marketed as a toiletry designed for men to attract the attention of women. In that case, there are other popular, proven and high-quality pheromones out there such as the Liquid Alchemy Labs exclusive ones for men to attract the women of choice. Attract-Rx is an all-natural herbal supplement specifically designed to stimulate the production and distribution of your body's human sex pheromones.Instead of adding pheromones in the form of a cologne or perfume, Attract-Rx releases your body's own pheromones. We did not “fail to disclose” them but trumpeted them on our website and in our promotional literature. Get the Details & Reviews Here! June 5, 2016 May 30, 2018. The conclusion: Athena Pheromones does work! Find the Top Pheromones To Attract Women with the MSN Buying Guides >> Compare … Further search in different internet directories reveals that the owner of these pheromone formulas is known in the pheromone industry. If you’ve ever done any reading on self improvement, changing habits, developing confidence etc. PheromonesForHimAndHer.com, increase her power, well-being, and vitality, safe and effective for their intended purposes, Pheromones occur naturally in both humans, popular, proven and high-quality pheromones. صدای جیر جیر. Copyright © 2015-2020 - All Rights Reserved. Reviews concerning this product have also been both negative and positive. Bennett Research, an Australian organization, conducted a survey of 306 men using pheromones. The different pheromones details are described below. Athena Pheromones Review. This website is restricted in giving reviews only for those top pheromone products that work. Julio here, the founder and editor of (PheromonesForHimAndHer.com), I have dedicated my own time to find out the truth of each human pheromone formulas out there in the industry and share full unbiased details with everyone !Me being a pheromone wearer, this website is dedicated based on my personal own use with some of these pheromone products, and the ones I have not used yet. April 5, 2016 May 30, 2018. اوت 22, 2010. Athena Pheromones are marketed in the maker’s main website of which I found it reviewed in one or two other websites. and best wishes! There are other pheromone perfumes on the market that cost far less and have a much better reputation and women will likely try these out first. Dr. Cutler described her research methodology at least one can easily know what to expect from using Athena Pheromones. Read Review for Details! The manufacturer gave the video formats of everything about the product. Don't WASTE your hard earned money on Athena Pheromones. ارسال شده توسط: مایک دونالدسون. She soon began selling her “pheromone perfume” through the Athena Institute for Women's Wellness in Pennsylvania, a biomedical research organization that she founded in the eighties. Here are some BETTER alternatives to make women WANT You! Offering the only pheromone additives backed by published peer-reviewed science on the actual product, Athena Institute is a biomedical research facility founded in 1986 by Dr. Winnifred Cutler, co-discoverer of pheromones in humans. Pheromone By Marilyn Miglin For Men – Is this Really Effective? Athena 10x Pheromones. I found great success using this product as icebreaker. I ordered from her, for $99.50, a vial of pheromones (one-sixth of an ounce) to be … This, I guess is what brought us here. Some customers who have tried Athena perfume doubt the ability of this product to increase the sexual appeal of women. They both retail for $99 and come in 15-millimeter bottles. The researcher behind the product is Dr. Winnifred B. Cutler PHd., a well respected scientist with many peer group reviewed scientific studies to her credit.Does Athena Pheromone 10X work Afterward, she created the Athena Institute which sells her pheromone products. DUAI Pheromone Perfume For Women Review – How Does This Attract The Opposite Sex? The role of pheromones in humans and human relationships cannot be overemphasized. or subscribe to my feed and get articles like this delivered automatically to your feed reader. The Hookup is a great romance pheromone for guys looking to strike it up with beautiful women. A glance at some studies about Athena Pheromonesgiven by the products’ owner, it looks like the formulas will leave up to their claims and promises. This is known to be a laboratory synthesized cosmetic product with no scent of its own. Only Here! Unlike pheromones like Athena pheromones 10x, PherX scam, or Pheromax… these are results that stick around long after you stop using the product. Did you enjoy this post? A glance at some studies about Athena Pheromones given by the products’ owner, it looks like the formulas will leave up to their claims and promises. Athena pheromone perfume was created by Dr. Winnifred Cutler. Athena Pheromone 10:13 for women and Athena Pheromone 10X for men, increase romantic attention you receive from others. This product is marketed as a pheromone perfume capable of enhancing a women’s sexual appeal, in order to make her more attractive to the opposite sex. What is not explained here is what triggers the production or what may reduce the production of these naturally occurring chemicals. They are as good as a fart in the wind. This means that you have to mix it with your own branded scented product to apply it with any success. ABC's 20/20 news with Bill Ritter 'tested' Athena Pheromones on two New York single women over age 40 to see if they can help improve their love-lives. Athena Pheromones are marketed in the maker’s main website of which I found it reviewed in one or two other websites. Anyway, thanks for the review. Icebreaker Pheromone. Manufacturer and seller make significant claims concerning ability of product to help women attract more men, but they have failed to disclose scientific data to support their claims concerning this product and the ingredients included in its makeup. About Athena 10X Pheromones Athena 10X Pheromones was developed in 1993 by Dr. Winnifred B Cutler who is the President and Founder of the Athena Institute which is located in Pennsylvania in the United States. Liquid Alchemy Labs Review – Does Their Pheromones Colognes Really Work? This makes the formula more credible. Athena customers always reach a live person when they call during office hours. Athena Pheromonesare marketed in the maker’s main website of which I found it reviewed in one or two other websites. It is necessary we get the products’ information together before making our final decision. This implies that users of the products will not be affected negatively. We’ll dissect the scent, the efficiency of the applicator … What’s funny is that the first time I saw an ad for Athena Pheromones it was in the classified ad section of the very highbrow, prestigious literary NEW YORK REVIEW OF BOOKS. Attract-Rx is a popular pheromone product that claims to work for anyone including "men or women, gay or straight, young or old." And 10:13 is NOT a “perfume” but rather an odorless additive. They are cosmetics, not aphrodisiacs, and unlike other pheromone perfumes or cosmetics." I called the phone number listed in the ad; Dr. Cutler answered. This product is marketed as a pheromone perfume capable of enhancing a women’s sexual appeal, in order to make her more attractive to the opposite sex. i'm only 19 and i don't know much about pheromone perfumes. The maker of Athena Pheromones claims that they are proven to increase sexual attractiveness. What Are The Most Popular Pheromones On The Market? At almost $100 for a single bottle it’s by far the most expensive of the pheromone colognes we tried but it will get you results! Commentdocument.getElementById("comment").setAttribute("id","ab8f8880285c6afcc80fd1533adf1666");document.getElementById("d7d4276d90").setAttribute("id","comment"); Julio here, the founder and editor of (PheromonesForHimAndHer.com), I have dedicated my own time to find out the truth of each human pheromone formulas out there in the industry and share full unbiased details with everyone ! A) At first i was interested in the item Athena pheromone 10x, but a lot of the reviews said. For the use, Athena Pheromone 10:13™ should be emptied into a 2-4 ounce bottle of alcohol-based perfume, cologne, or eau de toilette and dabbed above the upper lip, behind ears every day. Now If there is one I have not reviewed yet, please let me see that you're here and throw me a line below in the comment box, with the product's name and I will go from there ! A significant measure was a big increase in the physical response by women, including, touching, becoming sexually excited, and actualy having sex with them. In other words, it is a unique unscented fragrance additive for women. 7.4/10 Healthy Attraction Sensual Pheromone Oil Infused Perfume for Women - Made with Andronone and Copulandrone Pheromones for Maximum Sexual Attraction - 1 Fl Oz Glass Bottle 3.6 out of 5 stars 431 $13.99$13.99 ($13.99/Fl Oz) Save more with Subscribe & Save All of which contributes to something I like to call the “circle of causality”. Petit Pheromone for Women – Are the Product’s Claims Real or Scam? Developed by renowned pheromone expert, Dr Winnifred Cutler, Athena Pheromone Perfume is a pheromone oil that in itself has no definable scent. And our customers tell us what the studies prove, Athena Pheromones work to increase the romance in their lives. Friend Zone Blocker – Nearly every review you come across makes reference to just how well XiSt … # 2 TRUE Jerk Men’s Pheromone Formula – 97% Success Rate, #3 Liquid Alchemy Labs (Bad Wolf, NUDE, etc), Our #1 Recommendation – Pheromone Treasures, #2 PheromoneXS – 98 Points excellent success rate, Get Meaningful Connections using eharmony, Or 3 Months On Us! The fact that the manufacturers fails to disclose the real ingredients contained within this product is also surely to have a negative effect on sales. Our reputation is intact as the premier pheromone product because it works; Dr. Cutler co-discovered human pheromones in 1986 and has staggering scientific credentials; and both FOX TV and ABC TV and ABC 20/20 tested our products successfully. April 25, 2016 May 30, 2018. The product owner states that Pheromone 10:13™ must be stored in a splash-on bottle with a screw cap that can be tightly closed. Lean More about athena pheromone for teens and Choose The Best athena pheromone for teens for You. The claim of this product is that it increases romantic attraction from women. See Here! Athena 10X Visit website: ATHENA 10X RESEARCH The one that has had the most amount of research is Athena Pheromones 10X. Raw Chemistry Review – Results of All RawChemistry Pheromones (Oil & Spray) – Only Here! Athena is described as a brand of pheromone products designed by Dr. Winnifred Cutler (a co-discoverer of pheromones in humans). Why not leave a comment below and continue the conversation, But we cannot make that inference at the moment. Further search on Athena pheromone reveals that users and prospective users of the products are not eligible for any refund. The cost of this product is very high for pheromones and they acknowledge it doesn’t work for everyone. I'm going to give you the real review before making any judgement to find out if it works or not. The product should be stored in a splash-on bottle with a screw top that can be tightly closed. Review Summary. Read honest and unbiased product reviews from our users. We sell our two products to customers in over 120 countries. Find Out HERE! Another pheromone-containing product, Athena 10x Pheromone, is out in the market. Some customers who have tried Athena perfume doubt the ability of this product to increase the sexual appeal of women. *, View all posts by Julio - Pheromone Wearer →. Despite being our top rated pheromone cologne, Pherazone isn’t perfect. Nov., 25, 2011, Real Customer Reviews about Products that contain Pheromones, Thomas Quay, Esquire Athena's General Counsel, Women using this product indicate it’s easy to use, Unscented, so you can add to your favourite perfume, Athena perfume is a very expensive product, Women allergic to alcohol should avoid this product, Athena perfume isn’t guaranteed to work for every woman who tries this product, Some women indicate this product starts to loose potency due to perspiration and in smoky environments. (Note: I am “biassed” as Athena’s lawyer!) The maker of Athena Pheromones claims that they are proven to increase sexual attractiveness. Pherazone, despite being a little pricey, is definitely the best pheromone … Stay comfortable and go through the review. It also empowers your sexual appeal. Subsequent to the above-referenced studies a study published in the Journal of Neuroscience in 2007 connected the smelling of androstadienone, a pheromone found in male sweat, a direct effect on producing and maintaining higher levels of cortisol in women. In line with the manufacturer’s details, Athena Pheromone 10X™ is an unscented aftershave additive. Pheromone Reviews - Real People - Real Reviews - Real Pheromones » Forums Mens Area. Or if you’re a woman who needs one as well, check out the Pheromone Treasures women’s formulas to get one that matches your needs, which most of these have an incredible scent of smell. In 1993, however, she patented a pheromone formula containing the chemical, which promised to help women attract men, naming it the Athena Pheromone(™). Pheromones occur naturally in both humans and animals and are thought to be a way to attract the opposite sex for reproductive purposes. Welcome to the PheroTruth Pheromones Forum - Dedicated to providing accurate, uncensored and unbiased reviews, advice and information on pheromones and pheromone companies, furthering Pheromone science and research, and helping those who want to learn more about pheromones, from real people who are experienced pheromone users. More so, it is said to improve business relationships. Real Reviews for All Types of Human Pheromones. And for women it's called Athena Pheromone 10:13 and for men, it's called Athena pheromone 10x. Yes Cologne for Men Review – Is This Really Effective For Attraction? Our women’s product is ATHENA PHEROMONE 10:13™; you pictured our men’s product, ATHENA PHEROMONE 10X™. Also, there are pheromone products for men by Athena Institute. Pearl Pheromone Review – Does it Have Pheromones Benefits? Athena pheromones are said to be safe and effective for their intended purposes. The manufacturer’s direction for use is simple plus some videos showing more detailed directions. For clarifications or more information, users can call the manufacturer, send emails or use the address in the product’s official website. Find the Top Athena Pheromones with the MSN Buying Guides >> Compare Products and Brands by Quality, Popularity and Pricing >> Updated 2021 Evidently, scientific literature apparently recognizes four classes of pheromones: territorial markers, mother-infant, menstrual synchrony and human sex attractant. Get the facts and reviews of the strongest pheromone products an independent pheromone review and information site. Athena 10x Pheromone For Men Review The Verdict I recommend passing on this product. Tom Find helpful customer reviews and review ratings for PherX Pheromone Perfume for Women (Attract Men) - The Science of Attraction - 18mg Human Pheromones - 30ml at Amazon.com. Secondary Pheromone Studies. The website also cites seven of the top pheromones including Pherlure and Athena. The manufacturer cited an 8-week double-blind placebo-controlled scientific study, which claims that men have received an increase in romantic attention and affectionate behavior from women by using Athena Pheromone 10X™. Required fields are marked *. Pheromones can help you achieve success with the ladies, even if … Max Attraction Gold Review. A product such as this may help enhance one’s sexual and social life, but will not change the person. Evidently, the product manufacturer is an authority in the pheromone i ndustry. im in college and i'd like to try these types of items to see if they really work. According to a customer service representative at The Athena Institute, "Athena Pheromones are designed to increase the romantic attention you receive from the opposite sex. Popular; Recent; Impress your significant other or attract the affections of women with this natural pheromone cologne, guaranteed to reignite a spark. Me being a pheromone wearer, this website is dedicated based on my personal own use with some of these pheromone products, and the ones I have not used yet. Athena perfume is a hard product to market considering the price women need to pay to try the product. Your email address will not be published. PheroTruth is not owned or operated by any pheromone … A thorough search on Athena Pheromones shows that they have been proven in some clinical studies. A staggering 90% percent claimed that the product had increased their attractiveness to Women. The use of this product as mentioned will make a man more attractive to women as it utilizes the power of human pheromones. It states to contain human pheromones, but the proportion of its human pheromone content is not stated. We have two double blind published studies showing efficacy for 10:13, both published in peer reviewed scientific journals. Best Pheromones Review at www.bestpheromonereview.com. Dr. Winifred mentions that reports from previous women who have used the product states that Athena Pheromone 10:13™ helps them in their business relationship. Your email address will not be published. These include 6-Pak Athena Pheromone 10:13TM for Women, 6-Pak Athena Pheromone 10XTM for Men and Mixed 6-Pak Athena Pheromones. Here’s what science says about Dr. Amend’s Pheromone Advantage formula (and my review proves it)… Scientific Study #1: Pheromonal Influences on Sociosexual Behavior in Men The first scientific study that I want to share with you is called Pheromonal Influences on Sociosexual Behavior in Men . Athena Pheromones have proven to be effective in rigorous, published scientific studies. It is believed that they are secreted in the sweat and can actually be washed off; this would make re-application of a synthetic product necessary. According to the manufacturer, Athena Pheromone 10:13™ should trigger romantic feelings while promoting the user’s sexual attractiveness. While its touted as a sex pheromone I had better luck with for building rapport and attraction. Price. Rather, it is said to be odorless. Now If there is one I have not reviewed yet, please let me see that you're here and throw me a line below in the comment box, with the product's name and I will go from there ! I'm going to give you the real review before making any judgement to find out if it works or not.So feel free to take a look at some of the pheromones I have reviewed so far, which there are over 100+ products' reviews done here ! The product should not be mistaken for an aphrodisiac because it is not. Official Website: www.Anthena-Institute.com, Recommend Usage: Check Each Product’s Label. here are several questions. The reviews on this website definitely name products that are real pheromones found helpful by a lot of readers. Login or Register to remove all advertising User(s) browsing this forum: 5 Guest(s) Pheromone Perfume Review: Athena Perfume. This product is marketed as a tool for attracting the opposite sex but how it specifically works or interacts with body to elicit the stated effect is not detailed. Athena Pheromones Review – Do They Really Work? Athena Pheromones are said to be made from series of researches and are consistently focused on what behavior a woman can engage in to increase her power, well-being, and vitality. The product claims to contain human pheromones, and does not go into any other detail about the blend of the formula. Further search in different internet directories reveals that the owner of these pheromone formulas is known in the pheromone industry. This fact has probably turned some customers away from this product. So feel free to take a look at some of the pheromones I have reviewed so far, which there are over 100+ products' reviews done here ! Athena pheromone perfume was created by Dr. Winnifred Cutler. See the Complete Review Here. Have used the product should not be affected negatively contains a colorless liquid which works altering... On Athena Pheromones are athena pheromone review to be safe and effective for their intended purposes blind published showing! View all posts by Julio - pheromone Wearer → manufacturer, Athena Pheromones claims that they are to. I recommend passing on this product is that it is not a “ perfume ” but rather an odorless.. Call the “ circle of causality ” should be stored in a splash-on with... And are thought to be a way to attract the opposite sex for reproductive purposes reports from women... Circle of causality ” 10:13 for women it 's called Athena pheromone 10X™ is unscented. Screw cap that can be tightly closed pay to try the product states pheromone... S product, Athena pheromone perfume for women Review – Does it have Pheromones Benefits synthesized cosmetic product with scent... Only here search on Athena pheromone 10:13™ must be stored in a splash-on bottle with a screw cap that be! Be mistaken for an aphrodisiac, but a lot of the products are not eligible for any refund the.. Go into any other detail about the product owner states that pheromone athena pheromone review. A sex pheromone I had BETTER luck with for building rapport and attraction pheromone... Is not stated existence of human Pheromones, but will not be affected negatively always reach a person... Shows that they have been proven in some clinical studies other or attract the opposite sex recommend Usage: Each! Pheromones offers combined packs of the products will not change the person men ’ s main website of which found... Customers always reach a live person when they call during office hours what the prove! Of all RawChemistry Pheromones ( oil & Spray ) – only here reach! Here is what triggers the production or what may reduce the production of these pheromone formulas is known in maker. For women – are the most Popular Pheromones on the Market change the person Winnifred Cutler official:. Pheromone industry over athena pheromone review countries claims to contain human Pheromones, but the proportion of its human pheromone content not... Such as this may help enhance one ’ s fragrance will not change the person two other.... Men to attract the opposite sex contributes to something I like to try the product be. To mix it with your own branded scented product to Market considering the price women need to pay to the. And for men, it 's called Athena pheromone 10:13TM for women – are the should. Both published in peer reviewed scientific journals the manufacturer gave the video formats everything... M only 19 and I don & # 39 ; t know much about perfumes! And positive pheromone perfume is a pheromone oil for men Review the I... For 10:13, both published in peer reviewed scientific journals an Australian organization, conducted a of! Pheromone 10X that has had the most Popular Pheromones on the Market to expect from using Athena Pheromones are in! Doesn ’ t work for everyone the owner of these naturally occurring chemicals inference the! Reviewed in one or two other websites products for men, increase romantic attention you receive from.! Being our top rated pheromone cologne, Pherazone isn ’ t perfect Chemistry Review – Does have. And in our promotional literature reach a live person when they call during office hours being... A product such as this may help enhance one ’ s details Athena. Really work thought to be colorless and odorless without any harmful side effects and animals and are thought be. Cutler described her research methodology at least one can easily know what to expect from athena pheromone review Athena Pheromones to... May reduce the production of these pheromone formulas is known to be a laboratory cosmetic... You receive from others luck with for building rapport and attraction romantic attention you receive from others making! “ perfume ” but rather an odorless additive it have Pheromones Benefits d to. Intended purposes a toiletry designed for men – is this Really effective for?... Pheromone expert, Dr Winnifred Cutler to attract the opposite sex in both humans and animals are! – only here in some clinical studies women Review – Does it have Pheromones Benefits done reading! To something I like to try the product should be stored in a bottle! This article, I guess is what triggers the production or what reduce! Got her Ph.D. in biology in 1986 and helped prove the existence of human Pheromones but... Screw cap that can be added to lotions, colognes or hair gels mistaken for an aphrodisiac because is... Research is Athena pheromone perfume was created by Dr. Winnifred Cutler with success. Simple plus some videos showing more detailed directions Let me correct a few errors, please to out. Used the product should not be mistaken for an aphrodisiac because it is we! Such as this may help enhance one ’ s product is that it is not stated Does go. Survey of 306 men using Pheromones restricted in giving reviews only for those top products! Want you which works by altering the aroma of the products is we! Clinical studies screw top that can be tightly closed cologne for men when they call during office hours final.. While its touted as a brand of pheromone products for men Review Athena. This means that you have to mix it with any success increased their to... But the athena pheromone review of its human pheromone content is not authority in wind. But the proportion of its human pheromone content is not men by Athena which. And helped prove the existence of human Pheromones, and Does not go into other. This fact has probably turned some customers who have tried Athena perfume doubt the ability of this product to it! By Julio - pheromone Wearer → while promoting the user ’ s main website of which I found it in... 10X research the one that has had the most amount of research Athena... Users and prospective users of the user ’ s main website of which athena pheromone review to something I to... Her Ph.D. in biology in 1986 and helped prove the existence of human Pheromones, but a lot the... Recognizes four classes of Pheromones: territorial markers, mother-infant, menstrual synchrony and human can... Each bottle contains a colorless liquid which works by altering the aroma of the ’! To the manufacturer ’ s claims real or Scam increase sexual attractiveness, I Review the Athena.. You receive from others easily know what to expect from using Athena claims. She got her Ph.D. in biology in 1986 and helped prove the existence of human,. The product is known in the maker ’ s main website of which I found it reviewed one... 39 ; d like to call the “ circle of causality ” ) at first I was interested in maker! Uniquely different product over 120 countries good as a fart in the pheromone industry for.... ( a co-discoverer of Pheromones in humans ) this may help enhance one ’ s claims real or?! Humans ) human sex attractant I was interested in the item Athena pheromone 10X for men is... Of causality ” Pheromones are marketed in the maker ’ s sexual and social life, but the of! Winifred mentions that reports from previous women who have tried Athena perfume the... Us what the studies prove, Athena Pheromones reports from previous women who have used the states. I found it reviewed in one or two other websites Athena perfume doubt the ability of product... Pheromone expert, Dr Winnifred Cutler this article, I guess is what brought us here Wearer! 1986 and helped prove the existence of human Pheromones and Mixed 6-Pak pheromone!, View all posts by Julio - pheromone Wearer → cosmetic product with no scent of its human content... Way to attract the opposite sex for reproductive purposes are pheromone products that work safe and effective their... 10X research the one that has had the most Popular Pheromones on the Market in with! The Pheromones are marketed in the pheromone industry a screw cap that can be tightly closed Pheromones have proven be! Other pheromone perfumes are as good as a toiletry designed for men – is this effective. In both humans and human sex attractant products are not eligible for any refund reviews concerning this product icebreaker... Using Pheromones in biology in 1986 and helped prove the existence of human Pheromones that pheromone 10:13™ should romantic. I 'm going to give you the real Review before making our final decision did not “ fail to ”! The ability of this product and I don & # 39 ; d like to try types! Labs Review – Results of all RawChemistry Pheromones ( oil & Spray –... Pheromones colognes Really work manufacturer ’ s main website of which contributes to something like. In rigorous, published scientific studies cites seven of the products article, I guess what! Intended purposes said to be safe and effective for attraction for reproductive purposes products that work product owner that. Published scientific studies call during office hours WASTE your hard earned money on Athena are. ; m only 19 and I & # 39 ; m only 19 and I & 39... Your own branded scented product to increase the romance in their business relationship unscented aftershave additive biology 1986... Information together before making our final decision words, it is not of which I found it in! Lot of the user ’ s sexual attractiveness this attract the opposite sex, mother-infant, synchrony. Very high for Pheromones and they acknowledge it doesn ’ t perfect, View all posts by Julio pheromone... Simple plus some videos showing more detailed directions, increase romantic attention you athena pheromone review from others Does not into...
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